| They’re just plot holes and they kinda confuse you but it’s nothing massive where it messed up the story people find any reason to shit on this show istg |
how have u replied over 20 times in your own thread and havent even seen the posts debunking these plot holes |
| Does the show have plot holes - Yes Is it a perfect show - No Did I like the show anyways - Yes Do I care if it's not perfect - No Will I still rate the show high cause I like it and that's all that matters - Yes |
  『ᴅᴇᴍᴏɴ-ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴊᴜᴅɢᴇ ᴏꜰ ꜰɪʀᴇ』 Then her jaw slackened as she muttered out. [I... am the bi◼️?] ☽ † ☾ - ᴅᴇʟɪᴠᴇʀɪᴇꜱ- ꜱɪɢ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ ʙʏ ʜᴜᴍᴀɴᴛᴡɪɢ |
| Shots depend on where bullets hit. One hit to brain area or heart will be lethal Hit to lungs most likely lethal On the other hand any shots to limbs and body areas without vital organs will allow one to recover pretty simple I think police is trained to shoot non lethal areas of the body. Mao only used 'reveal identity' as a threat to CC to make her return to him. Mao hoped CC will stay with him to protect Lelouch from HBE. If he actually revealed Lelouch's identity, then CC will not actually come back to him. Mao is not stupid. There is no guarantee that scales really disarming the bomb. Mao might have a back up plan to blow up Nunnally Automatic door in various shopping malls too have slow reaction time. May be machiene gun has slow sensors. Knightmares have other targets to shoot and concerns to worry about. Dodging rockets and more sophisticated weapons, fired from other Knigtmares is farm more important for survivability, than shooting every single idiot with a gun who fires at you. With that, all the alleged plot holes have been addressed. Dare to challenge my supreme intelligence? |
EmperorThorJul 25, 2023 6:43 PM
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Kurdo said: While I know posts like these are looking for validations and generally aren't actually looking for explanations, I'll indulge:Why does this series have such plot holes? Mao gets shot multiple times,then survives with help of technology but when the Princess(euphy) gets shot only once dies, did that miraculous technology just vanished when someone far more important needed it? When mao returns doesn't reveal his identity but plays games with him? During the game you could've just pushedthe scales but guess common sense is not available at that moment? Also Suzaku dodges machine gun and destroys it with a kick? On multiple occasions people with guns fight super robots and survive like it's nothing, how come? -Bullets and the Human Body So, if you hit someone with bullets in all non-vital areas, they're really not going to die if they get immediate-ish medical attention. Heck, the iron maiden is a torture device that is designed precisely to stab in all non-vital areas for... torture. Shoot someone in the heart though, or through a critical vein or artery and they will basically be gone as some areas on the human body are so vital that once damaged, if you can't repair it, you're done. -Mao not revealing Lelouch's identity Remember: his goal is to get C.C. Getting back at Lelouch only happens cus he got a bit of pain. But, what's most vital to Lelouch is his sister, not his identity being secret. His identity being secret is only a means to an end; if he lost Nunnally that'd hit waaaaaaaaay harder. He wants Lelouch to feel the feeling of losing someone most vital to him because Lelouch basically NTR'd him the episode before, not just annoying him by making him have to no longer be around Ashford academy or have to extra politics to get Black Knights chores done. -Why not push the scale? Remember: Mao is a mindreader. If he thinks it, Mao will instantly know and will act before he can. This might not seem like common sense if you didn't think it through but this is basically an out-of-the-board chess game as well. By having to ask this, you're basically doing a Tamaki when the Battle of Mt. Fuji happened. There is a silent battle of wits occurring and you're missing the key moves. -Suzaku dodges machine guns and destroys it with a kick Commonly humanly possible? No. But neither is Lelouch's level of intellect. The lagtime stated on the machine gun (I assume they mean the time between detection of motion and position and an actual bullet getting fired) is 0.5 seconds, or 500ms. The average human reaction speed is ~200-300 ms (gamers, couch potatos are probably slower). For top performers (ex: Olympics athletes), that can be as low as under 100 ms. And this is for REACTIONS, not planned chain actions where the lagtime between one action and the next can be even shorter. In short, can it be PHYSICALLY possible? Yes. Is it difficult? Super. Can most people do it? No. Can people relate to being able to do it? No. Are you meant to relate to Suzaku doing it? Also no. His level of athleticism is basically stated to be a superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent. Most people aren't top tier at even a single thing. -People fighting mechs with a gun and surviving. They don't always. But you can get lucky. That said, I don't think any major character fought with nothing but a gun for too long and survived. Suzaku is the exception but frankly, if you don't get hit, you don't take damage. That should be common sense. So if there is a character doing this, whether by luck or skill, if they didn't get hit, then naturally they will survive. I hope you have fun reading this. And, before you reply, I am fully not expecting your ego or your biases to allow you to be sated by any explanation given here. Best regards, |
BalsaminaAug 4, 2023 10:34 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| The Geass is another problem. It isn't well-explored which leaves certain plot points questionable. |
TRC_RandyAug 5, 2023 1:55 AM
ThorLL said: so how did he get up from there not dying from blood loss if not vital organs shot and just recover?Shots depend on where bullets hit. One hit to brain area or heart will be lethal Hit to lungs most likely lethal On the other hand any shots to limbs and body areas without vital organs will allow one to recover pretty simple |
Balsamina said: where does the show say Suzaku's athleticism is superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent?-Suzaku dodges machine guns and destroys it with a kick Commonly humanly possible? No. But neither is Lelouch's level of intellect. The lagtime stated on the machine gun (I assume they mean the time between detection of motion and position and an actual bullet getting fired) is 0.5 seconds, or 500ms. The average human reaction speed is ~200-300 ms (gamers, couch potatos are probably slower). For top performers (ex: Olympics athletes), that can be as low as under 100 ms. And this is for REACTIONS, not planned chain actions where the lagtime between one action and the next can be even shorter. In short, can it be PHYSICALLY possible? Yes. Is it difficult? Super. Can most people do it? No. Can people relate to being able to do it? No. Are you meant to relate to Suzaku doing it? Also no. His level of athleticism is basically stated to be a superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent. Most people aren't top tier at even a single thing. |
TRC_Randy said: ThorLL said: so how did he get up from there not dying from blood loss if not vital organs shot and just recover?Shots depend on where bullets hit. One hit to brain area or heart will be lethal Hit to lungs most likely lethal On the other hand any shots to limbs and body areas without vital organs will allow one to recover pretty simple Hospital can take care ob blood loss. They took him to hospital after all. |
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ThorLL said: who took him to hospital?TRC_Randy said: so how did he get up from there not dying from blood loss if not vital organs shot and just recover? Hospital can take care ob blood loss. They took him to hospital after all. |
TRC_Randy said: who took him to hospital? Police did. After effects of geass wore out, they noticed a wounded dude and helped him out. They do not keep their memories of what they done under geass effects so they could not remember that it was them who shoot Mao, so they probably assumed he was a victim and called the ambulance for him. Medics saved him. |
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ThorLL said: where in the show did it say the police took him?Police did. After effects of geass wore out, they noticed a wounded dude and helped him out. |
TRC_Randy said: ThorLL said: where in the show did it say the police took him?Police did. After effects of geass wore out, they noticed a wounded dude and helped him out. common sense, they will call ambulance in such situation. |
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ThorLL said: common sense isn't an argument. I mean if that was the case then Lelouch wasn't actually very smart to leave it like that.TRC_Randy said: where in the show did it say the police took him? common sense, they will call ambulance in such situation. |
| Code Geass is indeed the most flawed anime masterpiece. |
| Cucumber ice cream is the best! |
TRC_Randy said: common sense isn't an argument. I mean if that was the case then Lelouch wasn't actually very smart to leave it like that. Everyone can make a honest mistake by accident. Lelouch had enough to think of so he overlooked the fact that Mao could have survived this. |
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ThorLL said: mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after.Everyone can make a honest mistake by accident. Lelouch had enough to think of so he overlooked the fact that Mao could have survived this. |
TRC_RandyAug 5, 2023 5:01 AM
TRC_Randy said: ThorLL said: mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after.Everyone can make a honest mistake by accident. Lelouch had enough to think of so he overlooked the fact that Mao could have survived this. It was shown, Mao commented that he would be killed if Lelouch have given them an order to kill him instead of just shoot him. |
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ThorLL said: no it WASN'T shown. Besides, why needed Mao to comment on that instead of LELOUCH HIMSELF?TRC_Randy said: mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after. It was shown, Mao commented that he would be killed if Lelouch have given them an order to kill him instead of just shoot him. |
TRC_Randy said: Ep 6 around 16:45, Lelouch literally calls him an exercise nut as they try to catch the cat, implying he is physically extremely capable. Battle of Mt. Fuji's demonstration of BOTH of them in action and throughout the show as well. Basically, whereas Lelouch's special power outside of the geass itself is his top tier intellect, Suzaku's is his top-tier physical capabilities (of which agility and probably dexterity are included and translated into his mecha pilotting skills). Balsamina said: where does the show say Suzaku's athleticism is superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent?-Suzaku dodges machine guns and destroys it with a kick Commonly humanly possible? No. But neither is Lelouch's level of intellect. The lagtime stated on the machine gun (I assume they mean the time between detection of motion and position and an actual bullet getting fired) is 0.5 seconds, or 500ms. The average human reaction speed is ~200-300 ms (gamers, couch potatos are probably slower). For top performers (ex: Olympics athletes), that can be as low as under 100 ms. And this is for REACTIONS, not planned chain actions where the lagtime between one action and the next can be even shorter. In short, can it be PHYSICALLY possible? Yes. Is it difficult? Super. Can most people do it? No. Can people relate to being able to do it? No. Are you meant to relate to Suzaku doing it? Also no. His level of athleticism is basically stated to be a superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent. Most people aren't top tier at even a single thing. TRC_Randy said: ThorLL said: no it WASN'T shown. Besides, why needed Mao to comment on that instead of LELOUCH HIMSELF?It was shown, Mao commented that he would be killed if Lelouch have given them an order to kill him instead of just shoot him. To help out @ThorLL, Ep 15 time: 7:55. Yes this was said. In the dub, the official translation is "You know, Lulu, when you used your geass on those cops, you should've told them to kill me not just shoot me. You left off the finishing touch and now your sister's in a bind. What a quandary, what a quagmire, what a crunch!"* He said this to taunt Lelouch, right after praising Britannian medicinal prowess and commenting about Lelouch letting his guard down and this was on the phone while letting Lelouch know that he has his sister. Given the urgency of his sister's kidnapping, and the fact that Lelouch is practically a textbook INTJ, the nature of his way of thinking that results in him being INTJ rather than ISTJ would probably naturally lead him to spend his time, energy and brain cells on how to rescue his sister, not regretting past mistakes.** Why? because "how to rescue my sister" is the productive and goal-efficient line of thinking. "Dammit, I fucked up" is the unproductive/dwelling-on-the-past line of thinking. Even in the 24th episode, at 17:41, he tells Suzaku he "has no time to argue which of us is the bigger hyporcrit" because his objective was achieved in that scene and he had better things to do. I myself am the same way. *The original Japanese dialogue line was:「ねえルルー、あの時のギアスは『撃って』じゃなくて、『殺せ』とするべきだったんだよ。爪が甘いから妹が……窮地にだったね！ 危地に落ちたね！ピンチだね～！」Feel free to verify the translation with Google translate or Chat GPT. **For context: It is estimated that 70% of the (first) world's population tests as a Sensor (S). Only a rough 30% or so are Intuitive (N) type minds. INTJ accounts for roughly 2% of the total population, 3% of all men (this means women are excluded) are INTJs, while pending the source, 0.5% to 0.8% of all women are INTJs. In other words, Lelouch's mind is not generally relatable for most people, including not only his tier of intellect, but also his process and style of thinking. ***Please note that episode timestamps are expected to be off by +/-10 seconds pending the version of the show you use to verify each line. |
BalsaminaAug 6, 2023 7:56 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
Balsamina said: exercise nut =/= physically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system.Ep 4, Lelouch literally calls him an exercise nut as they try to catch the cat, implying he is physically extremely capable. mate you're just repeating the same thing that ThorLL did. Read my comment again. |
TRC_Randy said: I read both. Balsamina said: exercise nut =/= physically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system.Ep 4, Lelouch literally calls him an exercise nut as they try to catch the cat, implying he is physically extremely capable. mate you're just repeating the same thing that ThorLL did. Read my comment again. "Exercise nut" is implying all that is shown afterwards in the show. As for "repeating" ThorLL, maybe you should consider that perhaps it is because we are both stating the truth. In any case, you chimed in purely to try to help validate a standpoint that is trying to shit on the show, as far as I can tell. Why? Because both myself and ThorLL's explanation seriously threaten the claims of the OP that align with your viewpoint and stance. Practically everyone hates being wrong, and even being called having a subjective opinion that isn't fact can stir insecurity. I've done my part here so if there is no interest on your part in either understanding what the word "imply" means or verifying the lines I've quoted in response to you for yourself, perhaps we should stop here. I've no interest in spending time re-iterating my words to someone who has no intention to ever let those words register in their mind, or is trying to avoid accepting fact by selectively ignoring or altering the meaning of my choice of vocabulary to try to deflect the truth in my statements. |
BalsaminaAug 6, 2023 7:54 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
Balsamina said: bruh, why "AFTERWARDS"? Why not "BEFOREHAND"? What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur?"Exercise nut" is implying all that is shown afterwards in the show. Balsamina said: no this is just an escapist statement. You're just deflecting my point. Perhaps it is I, who's saying the truth. Consider that.As for "repeating" ThorLL, maybe you should consider that perhaps it is because we are both stating the truth. What you showed was MAO commenting on Lelouch's mistake not LELOUCH HIMSELF regretting his mistake. THAT was what i said TRC_Randy said: Plus, how do you explain that? How do you explain Mao, the freaking side character who appears for 3 eps, was the one who had to point that out instead of Lelouch, the MAIN CHARACTER himself who's sister is THE character in the show he treasures, who's been kidnapped?mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after. |
TRC_RandyAug 6, 2023 8:00 PM
TRC_Randy said: 1) "why "AFTERWARDS"? Why not "BEFOREHAND"?"Balsamina said: bruh, why "AFTERWARDS"? Why not "BEFOREHAND"? What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur?"Exercise nut" is implying all that is shown afterwards in the show. Balsamina said: no this is just an escapist statement. You're just deflecting my point. Perhaps it is I, who's saying the truth. Consider that.As for "repeating" ThorLL, maybe you should consider that perhaps it is because we are both stating the truth. What you showed was MAO commenting on Lelouch's mistake not LELOUCH HIMSELF regretting his mistake. THAT was what i said TRC_Randy said: Plus, how do you explain that? How do you explain Mao, the freaking side character who appears for 3 eps, was the one who had to point that out instead of Lelouch, the MAIN CHARACTER himself who's sister is THE character in the show he treasures, who's been kidnapped?mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after. Doesn't need to be beforehand. Writing a show is not the same as filling out your taxes on a form. It does not need to follow a set format. This is a creative work, not a bureaucratic process. 2) "no this is just an escapist statement." It appears you do not know the meaning of the words you use, so I should stop expecting you to understand the meaning of the ones I use indeed. Alternatively, perhaps you are incapable of understanding why multiple people might tell you [proverbially] that the daytime sky on planet earth is blue when you claim it is red. Please, do actually check the episodes and timestamps I gave you before claiming we are the ones not speaking the truth. You claimed a line was not said, I literally told you what episode to check and what timestamp, see the link to the original response where I have done so. 3) " How do you explain Mao, the freaking side character who appears for 3 eps, was the one who had to point that out " I literally explained it to you the first time I answered you. He said this to taunt Lelouch, right after praising Britannian medicinal prowess and commenting about Lelouch letting his guard down and this was on the phone while letting Lelouch know that he has his sister. Given that you have now solidly proven you don't read, or are glossing over points and nitpicking for fights over semantics, I'm going to politely inform you I won't be reading or responding any further to you in this subject matter. Link to the post above where everything was already explained. |
BalsaminaAug 6, 2023 8:29 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
Balsamina said: then what the hell's this thing on your profile?Doesn't need to be beforehand. Writing a show is not the same as filling out your taxes on a form. It does not need to follow a set format. Look at what you said (bolded and underlined) "two different criteria that characters can develop: I) expanding on the character with info where in II) can automatically be deduced" So in Suzaku's character him being called "exercise nut" DOES NOT automatically deduce TRC_Randy said: that LITERALLY broke your rule. YOUR OWN RULE.physically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system. And you ignored this part of my comment TRC_Randy said: What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur? |
Balsamina said: personal attacks on me have got nothing to do with Code Geass.2) "no this is just an escapist statement." It appears you do not know the meaning of the words you use, so I should stop expecting you to understand the meaning of the ones I use indeed. Alternatively, perhaps you are incapable of understanding why multiple people might tell you [proverbially] that the daytime sky on planet earth is blue when you claim it is red. Balsamina said: you ARE NOT speaking the truth. Why? Because i complained what Lelouch didn't say you and ThorLL's response "oh Mao said at this timestamp" that's MAO. I'm asking about Lelouch. Where is HIS PART in this? Why focusing only on Mao? Why ignore Lelouch?Please, do actually check the episodes and timestamps I gave you before claiming we are the ones not speaking the truth. |
TRC_Randy said: I really like Code Geass as well so I'm going to chime in. I think that line on their profile means they evaluate using either criteria I or II, not necessarily that one of the criteria needs to imply the other, but that if it does it can constitute points towards a show. Basically, that line is not really relevant to your point as they did not break their own rule for assessing an anime's overall characterization nor does their criteria for assigning a number rating to a show have to do with whether or not Suzaku's athletic abilities are "top tier" (Probably your tendency to misunderstand everything they've said is why they called you out on it, I think). Part of Suzaku's characterization by demonstration throughout the show is basically that he's superman both in and out of the Lancelot. In fact rather than a plothole, him dodging bullets from the machine gun IS part of the characterization of him.Balsamina said: then what the hell's this thing on your profile?Doesn't need to be beforehand. Writing a show is not the same as filling out your taxes on a form. It does not need to follow a set format. Look at what you said (bolded and underlined) "two different criteria that characters can develop: I) expanding on the character with info where in II) can automatically be deduced" So in Suzaku's character him being called "exercise nut" DOES NOT automatically deduce TRC_Randy said: that LITERALLY broke your rule. YOUR OWN RULE.physically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system. And you ignored this part of my comment TRC_Randy said: What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur? I also don't see what you mean by ignoring Lelouch. I remember that episode well and I do remember the line @Balsamina is quoting. If Mao is taunting Lelouch then Lelouch is not being ignored. Lelouch's part is to receive his news that Nunnally is kidnapped and to be the target of some verbal abuse. Just so happens the writers used the verbal abuse to explain how Mao survived. I see nothing wrong with that. Lelouch doesn't need to say anything. It'd be really bad writing actually if he did. What makes this show good is that everyone talks, not just the main character. Mao only got a small handful of episodes, if he doesn't talk here, where else will he talk? |
LieLikeVortigernAug 7, 2023 10:47 AM
LieLikeVortigern said: bruh, man, you're only 2 days old.I really like Code Geass as well so I'm going to chime in. I think that line on their profile means they evaluate using either criteria I or II, not necessarily that one of the criteria needs to imply the other, but that if it does it can constitute points towards a show. Basically, that line is not really relevant to your point as they did not break their own rule for assessing an anime's overall characterization Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. @Balsamina himself should come here and explain his own system. Still, the point remains that an anime HAS to follow some rules, formats and whatnot even according to this person. LieLikeVortigern said: BRUH? It 100% HAS to do with it. My complaint about "exercise nut" not deducing "beating an advanced gun system" is AND should contribute to his overall score no matter how big/small (i mean i'm here to talk about the plot holes, i don't care what score he gave Code Geass anyway).nor does their criteria for assigning a number rating to a show have to do with whether or not Suzaku's athletic abilities are "top tier" LieLikeVortigern said: please, either you prove the accusation that i'm misunderstanding him or you shut up.(Probably your tendency to misunderstand everything they've said is why they called you out on it, I think). LieLikeVortigern said: which is why i also questionedPart of Suzaku's characterization by demonstration throughout the show is basically that he's superman both in and out of the Lancelot. In fact rather than a plothole, him dodging bullets from the machine gun IS part of the characterization of him. TRC_Randy said: What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur? LieLikeVortigern said: READ THISI also don't see what you mean by ignoring Lelouch. TRC_Randy said: where's the part where he reflected that mistake he did, learnt from it, becoming more vigilant and all?What you showed was MAO commenting on Lelouch's mistake not LELOUCH HIMSELF regretting his mistake. THAT was what i said TRC_Randy said: Plus, how do you explain that? How do you explain Mao, the freaking side character who appears for 3 eps, was the one who had to point that out instead of Lelouch, the MAIN CHARACTER himself who's sister is THE character in the show he treasures, who's been kidnapped?mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after. Oh and i remembered that Lelouch not killing Mao for good in the previous episode was also questionable of his status as an intelligent character which is another unanswered issue. LieLikeVortigern said: oh there is sth wrong with that; what was the point of Mao surviving the previous ep again? Why even brought him back?Lelouch's part is to receive his news that Nunnally is kidnapped and to be the target of some verbal abuse. Just so happens the writers used the verbal abuse to explain how Mao survived. I see nothing wrong with that. |
TRC_Randy said: bruh, man, you're only 2 days old. Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. For someone accusing another user of attacking you when they call out your refusal to read what they write, you sure like trying to go adhominem on others. My account is 2 days old but that says nothing of my expertise on Code Geass. There's no logical relation between MAL account age and validity of arguement. All you're doing is making it clear you're losing the argument and that both @ThorLL and @Balsamina won. Why would she? (name sounds feminine so...) Thor said a line was said, you said to Thor it was not said, Balsamina directly replied with the episode and time that line was said, then you deflected and when she called you out on your trollish behavior, you accused her attacking you when she just stated facts. Her last post literally says its a waste of time bothering with you in different wording. You should learn to respect people by fully reading people's full post before responding. TRC_Randy said: Still, the point remains that an anime HAS to follow some rules, formats and whatnot even according to this person. Nah. That profile is basically how she grades an anime, not how they should be made. They are two different processes and it seems to me she made up a basis to signify she's not grading anime based on her feelings, nothing more. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: BRUH? It 100% HAS to do with it. My complaint about "exercise nut" not deducing "beating an advanced gun system" is AND should contribute to his overall score no matter how big/small (i mean i'm here to talk about the plot holes, i don't care what score he gave Code Geass anyway).nor does their criteria for assigning a number rating to a show have to do with whether or not Suzaku's athletic abilities are "top tier" So, the way I understand what's written on their profile is that, that criteria is for not only how the show characterizes all characters, but based on if or not the show defines characters by the list of things she is looking for and that those things don't need to be stated or shown in any order. Your insistance that they need to does not apply. That is just your own misunderstanding of their words (true to their observation of you so far, really). Your complaint about "exercise nut" actually isn't valid either because Suzaku's agility is shown even in the first 3-5 episodes where Lloyd comments he clocks in at 94% on the simulator for the Lancelot (and he says this like it's irreplaceably good, or in Balsamina's wording, "top-tier"). Keep in mind agility and dexterity determine how good you are as a mecha pilot, not strength. Suzaku's physical abilities (agility/dexterity) was technically demonstrated before the remark Balsamina pointed out. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: please, either you prove the accusation that i'm misunderstanding him or you shut up.(Probably your tendency to misunderstand everything they've said is why they called you out on it, I think). Just did above. You're welcome! :) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: which is why i also questionedPart of Suzaku's characterization by demonstration throughout the show is basically that he's superman both in and out of the Lancelot. In fact rather than a plothole, him dodging bullets from the machine gun IS part of the characterization of him. TRC_Randy said: What happened to properly fleshing out your character on their capabilities BEFORE such events occur? Why do it at the moment they occur? Irrelevant. Ever heard of show-and-not-tell? That machine gun scene is just further showing Suzaku's capabilities, although they do plenty to tell about it as well. You not liking the way it's done does not negate the fact that it is done. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: READ THISI also don't see what you mean by ignoring Lelouch. TRC_Randy said: where's the part where he reflected that mistake he did, learnt from it, becoming more vigilant and all?What you showed was MAO commenting on Lelouch's mistake not LELOUCH HIMSELF regretting his mistake. THAT was what i said Plus, how do you explain that? How do you explain Mao, the freaking side character who appears for 3 eps, was the one who had to point that out instead of Lelouch, the MAIN CHARACTER himself who's sister is THE character in the show he treasures, who's been kidnapped? Does not need to be there. Lelouch might be the main character but he does not need to say every line. I'd say the very situation of Nunnally's abduction by Mao more than shows he made a mistake and while Mao taunts him over it, both the audience and Lelouch should know he fucked up. Lelouch is just not dwelling on it. His mind and line of thinking is just different than yours. This is again a point people above you already went over. Read Balsamina's posts again, I think she exactly detailed that bit using Lelouch's Myers Briggs typing, effectively pointing out that Lelouch is the kind of guy who does not think like most people. (Or at least, he thinks differently than you so you should stop projecting yourself onto him and then being confused why your way of thinking does not line up with Lelouch's way of thinking. :p) TRC_Randy said: Oh and i remembered that Lelouch not killing Mao for good in the previous episode was also questionable of his status as an intelligent character which is another unanswered issue. Not really. His objective was getting his future wife back. He's laser-focused on that. Everything else be damned. I doubt he thought about the cops obeying his orders to the "T" and literally shooting only non-vitals. His plan worked, he got waifu back and he had every reason to think all was well. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: oh there is sth wrong with that; what was the point of Mao surviving the previous ep again? Why even brought him back?Lelouch's part is to receive his news that Nunnally is kidnapped and to be the target of some verbal abuse. Just so happens the writers used the verbal abuse to explain how Mao survived. I see nothing wrong with that. Irrelevant. He's brought back to bring some tension and fun to the show as well as a fancy way to use his mind-reading abilities to show that Suzaku's a walking bag of PTSD from killing his own father. Suzaku himself would have potentially never spoke of it otherwise. Lelouch later makes use of the information politically. |
LieLikeVortigernAug 10, 2023 12:25 PM
LieLikeVortigern said: um, BRUH? In what way do i "like" going adhominem on others? If i did "like" doing it then i would've done it the same to @EmperorThor but i didn't (read my replies to him). I NEVER said anything such UNTIL @Balsamina came (his second reply) and started throwingFor someone accusing another user of attacking you when they call out your refusal to read what they write, you sure like trying to go adhominem on others. Balsamina said: with EmperorThor he never fired personal attacks on me so i didn't need to. He's respectful so i respect him back. Balsamina on the other hand DID fire the shots so i had to fire back. No respect, back at ya. Simple as that.In any case, you chimed in purely to try to help validate a standpoint that is trying to shit on the show, as far as I can tell. Why? Because both myself and ThorLL's explanation seriously threaten the claims of the OP that align with your viewpoint and stance. Practically everyone hates being wrong, and even being called having a subjective opinion that isn't fact can stir insecurity. I've done my part here so if there is no interest on your part in either understanding what the word "imply" means or verifying the lines I've quoted in response to you for yourself, perhaps we should stop here. I've no interest in spending time re-iterating my words to someone who has no intention to ever let those words register in their mind, or is trying to avoid accepting fact by selectively ignoring or altering the meaning of my choice of vocabulary to try to deflect the truth in my statement So if anything HE is the one who likes to make adhominems not me. Go and condemn him. Call him out. And btw you misquoted me. It's not TRC_Randy said: it'sbruh, man, you're only 2 days old. Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. TRC_Randy said: by "i don't wanna hear that from you" i was emphasizing the latter line not former.bruh, man, you're only 2 days old. Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. @Balsamina himself should come here and explain his own system. LieLikeVortigern said: OFC i know that. I'm just saying. The thing is MAL is filled with a shit tone of alts. Yours could just be one of them.My account is 2 days old but that says nothing of my expertise on Code Geass. There's no logical relation between MAL account age and validity of arguement. LieLikeVortigern said: well Balsamina was the one who started throwing ad hominems and to add both of them are silent now. So according to your own logic, THEY lost.All you're doing is making it clear you're losing the argument and that both @ThorLL and @Balsamina won. LieLikeVortigern said: bruh there's no deflection there. The only mistake there is i asked the lines of Lelouch's but they gave me Mao's.Why would she? (name sounds feminine so...) Thor said a line was said, you said to Thor it was not said, Balsamina directly replied with the episode and time that line was said, then you deflected EmperorThor said: TRC_Randy said: common sense isn't an argument. I mean if that was the case then Lelouch wasn't actually very smart to leave it like that. Everyone can make a honest mistake by accident. Lelouch had enough to think of so he overlooked the fact that Mao could have survived this. EmperorThor said: And the rest is history. Like for serious, ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS FREAKING READ WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE DISCUSSION.TRC_Randy said: mere assumption. I mean in Lelouch's case it was never shown that he regretted that "dammit, i was careless" or whatever. He just, well, blindly missed that before and after. It was shown, Mao commented that he would be killed if Lelouch have given them an order to kill him instead of just shoot him. LieLikeVortigern said: yeah read the discussion whole before responding next time, LieLikeVortigern.You should learn to respect people by fully reading people's full post before responding. LieLikeVortigern said: no they aren't. Saying "how i grade anime" is the same as "how i think anime should be made". They both posit certain rules an anime should abide by that influences how that person scores/views/regards/receives it.Nah. That profile is basically how she grades an anime, not how they should be made. They are two different processes LieLikeVortigern said: you see there's the problem. What YOU MAY UNDERSTAND isn't the same as what HE ACTUALLY MEAN. You can speculate all you want but still HE needs to come here and explain it himself.So, the way I understand what's written on their profile LieLikeVortigern said: BRUH it 100% DOES apply. It literally says "What rubric do I use when scoring character development?" where on earth did you get "oh it's only ways of characterization"?that criteria is for not only how the show characterizes all characters, but based on if or not the show defines characters by the list of things she is looking for and that those things don't need to be stated or shown in any order. Your insistance that they need to does not apply. LieLikeVortigern said: what simulator? How does that entailYour complaint about "exercise nut" actually isn't valid either because Suzaku's agility is shown even in the first 3-5 episodes where Lloyd comments he clocks in at 94% on the simulator for the Lancelot TRC_Randy said: and i don't remember this partphysically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system. LieLikeVortigern said: where exactly in the show did Lloyd say it like that?(and he says this like it's irreplaceably good, or in Balsamina's wording, "top-tier") uh no you didn't prove jack. LieLikeVortigern said: bruh, that's not show-don't-tell. That's an asspull. It's only show-don't-tell when the revelation and/or conclusion makes perfect sense with what's previously hinted. With Suzaku beating the gun it's simply contrived rather than consistent.Irrelevant. Ever heard of show-and-not-tell? LieLikeVortigern said: bruh it MUST be there. Nunnally is the bloody raison d'être of Lelouch's character. She SHOULD've been the focal point of the mc's thought process ESPECIALLY for a show that frequently shows his inner monologues. Ignoring that is no other than flawed writing.Does not need to be there. And i never said "Lelouch needs to say every line". LieLikeVortigern said: no we shouldn't know. Look, here's why claiming Lelouch made a mistake is way more problematic than just admitting it's a plot hole:I'd say the very situation of Nunnally's abduction by Mao more than shows he made a mistake and while Mao taunts him over it, both the audience and Lelouch should know he fucked up. 1. It undermines his status as a super intelligent character. As someone who thinks a few steps ahead of an experienced commander in large scale military combats in a vehicle (the Knightmares) that he's never even been in, leaving one single simp alive is no less than a stupid and careless asf mistake. 2. It leaves specific loose ends that require assumptions (Occam's razor) which themselves are merely "possible explanations" that aren't proven in any shape or form as seen in my convo with Thor. 3. It requires such event to have a certain takeaway points like Lelouch becoming more aware/careful etc. Otherwise it only happens for the sake of it i.e. a complete waste of time. 4. It undermines Nunnally's character and 5. Lelouch's thought process as i've said before (fr all they had to do was a 3-second line of him saying "kusuo, shippaishita" or a 5-second clip of him flashing back on what he should've done, that's it). LieLikeVortigern said: nope. Claiming "he's INTJ" or whatever type of personality does nothing but bring EVEN MORE questions:Read Balsamina's posts again, I think she exactly detailed that bit using Lelouch's Myers Briggs typing, Where does the show say directly/indirectly that Lelouch is INTJ? Why does in ep 7 16:10 Lelouch acted contradictory to INTJ where instead of thinking about the student's council that he receives a call from why not just think "productive and goal-efficient" by immediately hanging up or leaving it be and stay focused on the battlefield that he's actually in? LieLikeVortigern said: where does the show say "he's laser-focused and everything else be damned"?Not really. His objective was getting his future wife back. He's laser-focused on that. Everything else be damned. LieLikeVortigern said: bruh, exactly stupid asf mistake. Instead of just getting her back why not think further and put Mao to complete silence? Even the average Joe would be able to think of silencing witnesses so why not Zero?I doubt he thought about the cops obeying his orders to the "T" and literally shooting only non-vitals. His plan worked, he got waifu back and he had every reason to think all was well. LieLikeVortigern said: it failed to. Sorry. Having Mao in the previous eps was fun but not this one.He's brought back to bring some tension and fun to the show LieLikeVortigern said: mere plot device then.as well as a fancy way to use his mind-reading abilities to show that Suzaku's a walking bag of PTSD from killing his own father. Suzaku himself would have potentially never spoke of it otherwise. Lelouch later makes use of the information politically. |
| While I greatly enjoy this debate, I must note that its rather offtopic to keep talking about Balsamina or their profile. Could you refrain from prompting me with more assertions about them? I'll answer the batch in your last post as quoted for now, but I prefer to just talk about Code Geass. TRC_Randy said: um, BRUH? In what way do i "like" going adhominem on others? If i did "like" doing it then i would've done it the same to @EmperorThor but i didn't (read my replies to him). I NEVER said anything such UNTIL @Balsamina came (his second reply) and started throwing [Omitted to save space] with EmperorThor he never fired personal attacks on me so i didn't need to. He's respectful so i respect him back. Balsamina on the other hand DID fire the shots so i had to fire back. No respect, back at ya. Simple as that. So if anything HE is the one who likes to make adhominems not me. Go and condemn him. Call him out. No, I still see you as the hostile one. She merely saw through your lack of willingness to read anything she says by the second post based on your first reply to her and your replies to the other guy, from what I can tell. Its not an attack on you as a person, its like saying "so this is a waste of both of our time, huh?". A tactic used by skilled debaters to disengage once they realize the discussion is a lost cause because the other person does not actually have any willingness to concede when they are proven wrong. Frankly, maybe this ticked you off because they seem to be right about you. TRC_Randy said: And btw you misquoted me. It's not TRC_Randy said: it'sbruh, man, you're only 2 days old. Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. TRC_Randy said: by "i don't wanna hear that from you" i was emphasizing the latter line not former.bruh, man, you're only 2 days old. Anyway, sorry but i don't wanna hear that from you. @Balsamina himself should come here and explain his own system. Doesn't matter and doesn't change what you tried to do. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: OFC i know that. I'm just saying. The thing is MAL is filled with a shit tone of alts. Yours could just be one of them.My account is 2 days old but that says nothing of my expertise on Code Geass. There's no logical relation between MAL account age and validity of arguement. Gotta love how you keep trying to attack someone else's validity. I bet if I spouted nonsense that backed up your points, you'd make no such accusation. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: well Balsamina was the one who started throwing ad hominems and to add both of them are silent now. So according to your own logic, THEY lost.All you're doing is making it clear you're losing the argument and that both @ThorLL and @Balsamina won. She didn't call you a single name. Her points are succinct and in line with literally what everyone else is telling you, including Thor and myself. Once she quickly saw that you weren't willing to concede even when you've been proven wrong, she gracefully withdrew from conversing with you. That's not an ad hominem, its her right. You are just unwilling to accept that because you want a chance to assert with her that you are right but she won't give that to you so you're all frustrated. :p By the way, I should note that Thor seems to have withdrew as well, he just didn't bother to tell you he did. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: bruh there's no deflection there. The only mistake there is i asked the lines of Lelouch's but they gave me Mao's.Why would she? (name sounds feminine so...) Thor said a line was said, you said to Thor it was not said, Balsamina directly replied with the episode and time that line was said, then you deflected That's logically good enough to address your point. TRC_Randy said: And the rest is history. Like for serious, ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS FREAKING READ WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE DISCUSSION. I did. Actually, everyone who replied to you did. You are just refusing to accept anything they say because you insist on an anime being a certain way, from what I can see, such as your insistance that Suzaku's character must be portrayed in a certain manner in a certain order. You are not open to the anime doing its own thing or deviating from your internal process, yet you failed to realize this and tried to imply your view is somehow universally correct about how storytelling is to be done. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: no they aren't. Saying "how i grade anime" is the same as "how i think anime should be made". They both posit certain rules an anime should abide by that influences how that person scores/views/regards/receives it.Nah. That profile is basically how she grades an anime, not how they should be made. They are two different processes No it's not. Let's take the profile you quoted as the example we work with since its already brought up and I myself don't use a rubric to rate shows. Did you not read the first paragraph on it? The very one you quoted a few posts ago? Literally says "A 10 does not mean I like a show. I might literally find a show boring and still give it a 10 because it ticks all the boxes. Conversely a 1 does not mean I hate a show either. I can love a show to bits but still recognize it was zero effort trash." From what I can see, this criteria is not based on how they personally see an anime, but rather a checklist of things possible to include in an anime and if the thing is included, the box is checked and they add the points up. In case you don't realize, the last sentence in the quote implies this person sees value in shows that could be "trash" by the same criteria. Or in other words, the show can be made in a way that scores a 1 or otherwise does not "excell" in complexity and achievements according to this criteria but still not be "wrong" for existing. As such, I'm inclined to think users in general on this forum don't necessarily try to equate their opinion or rubric for what they define as excellence in anime media to the way anime should be produced. In other words, there is generally openness to new things and acceptance of variance in format or storytelling styles. Your assumption that how a user opines on or rates an anime is a rule that anime production must then follow is merely the way of thinking of the arrogant. Anime is an expression of art. The writers and producing staff decide how anime should be made, its their right to express themselves. It's not something normal people should be allowed to alienate from them. You assume that anime producers must strictly cater to viewers but that is precisely what isn't true here. If they do so, it's just catering to capitalism. However, in no way is there any requirement for them to, strictly. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: you see there's the problem. What YOU MAY UNDERSTAND isn't the same as what HE ACTUALLY MEAN. You can speculate all you want but still HE needs to come here and explain it himself.So, the way I understand what's written on their profile Not really. You're the only one who isn't understanding from what I can tell. And she has said above she doesn't want to talk to you as she's deemed any attempt to do so a waste of her time. She has a right to ignore you, you know. You can take offense from it but it doesn't make it an attack on you and its still her right. And, it might be assuming of me, but I think I understand what's written on her profile pretty well, personally. I can't really picture what else they mean with that opening paragraph and they do only explicitly say criteria I or II... lol. It's really pretty detailed, mate. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: BRUH it 100% DOES apply. It literally says "What rubric do I use when scoring character development?" where on earth did you get "oh it's only ways of characterization"?that criteria is for not only how the show characterizes all characters, but based on if or not the show defines characters by the list of things she is looking for and that those things don't need to be stated or shown in any order. Your insistance that they need to does not apply. You're choosing not to understand again, haha. Do you not realize your argument is that Suzaku's characterization needs to be shown or told in a certain order and you are trying to use Balsamina's checklist to prove it? A checklist! A list of things to check if they are there or not with no concern for presentation of order! Let's read over said checklist again: "1D - a literal name that never shows on the screen 2D - a showing of a character but that's literally it. 3D - it behaves in some way. It has a personality. After 3D there are two different criteria that characters can develop: I) expanding on the character with info where in II) can automatically be deduced 3.5D - it behaves in some way. It has a personality. It has at least a past and a present (1-3D) or at least a present and a future. 4D - it behaves in some way. It has a personality. It has at least a past and a present (1-3D). Most importantly, it has a future. or, II) portraying the inner mind of the character by demonstration of id - motives, desires, needs superego - the morals that the character abides by, ego - the logic & decisionmaking which mediates the id and superego with their situation Realistic portrayal in II) allows I) to be inferred, even if not explicitly stated." Nowhere on this checklist does it say Suzaku needs to be stated to be anything before being shown to be something. Order of information reveal is simply not a criteria here! xD TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: what simulator? How does that entailYour complaint about "exercise nut" actually isn't valid either because Suzaku's agility is shown even in the first 3-5 episodes where Lloyd comments he clocks in at 94% on the simulator for the Lancelot TRC_Randy said: and i don't remember this partphysically extremely capable let alone superpower, ultra rare, top tier talent that can beat an advanced gun system. LieLikeVortigern said: where exactly in the show did Lloyd say it like that?(and he says this like it's irreplaceably good, or in Balsamina's wording, "top-tier") You know, I was going to write something else in reply to this but I just scrolled up to check and I can't help but feel you are trying to deliberately misquote poor Balsamina, taking advantage that she's already bowed out from dealing with you, all to try to make yourself sound more right than you actually are. The changes were subtle, but Balsamina's actually words were: "His level of athleticism is basically stated to be a superpower/ultra rare/top tier talent." Notice the slashes: it is effectively an "or", not the "and" you tried to put in their mouth by altering the slashes to a comma. Also, what simulator??? What do you mean, what simulator??? What the heck were you even watching? It was like episode 2 or so when Lloyd or Cecile were talking about Suzaku's simulation runs for the Lancelot, how he scored at the top of the class. While Suzaku was in jail, I remember Lloyd talking about it (his simulation score) as it's a loss to his team because Suzaku is so damn dexterous/agile. Balsamina gave the episode for when Lelouch commented on his physical abilities directly. Everything proves the quoted point! The show keeps portraying Suzaku throughout as an over-the-top genius in physical abilities and you are just playing with words at this point, mate. If I didn't you wouldn't reply to this! ;) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: bruh, that's not show-don't-tell. That's an asspull. It's only show-don't-tell when the revelation and/or conclusion makes perfect sense with what's previously hinted. With Suzaku beating the gun it's simply contrived rather than consistent.Irrelevant. Ever heard of show-and-not-tell? Lol, show-and-not-tell is exactly show and not tell. Theres's no "revelation" element to it, quit making up definitions! :) Calling it an asspull is again, your mental defenses playing with semantics to try to feel you have some ground when you don't. They showed Suzaku beating a machine gun. They didn't say he can do it explicitly. They wrote and animated a scenario to show it. It's show-and-not-tell. There's no revelation here, that's a completely irrelevant concept. This is merely showcasing character ability. :) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: bruh it MUST be there. Nunnally is the bloody raison d'être of Lelouch's character. She SHOULD've been the focal point of the mc's thought process ESPECIALLY for a show that frequently shows his inner monologues. Ignoring that is no other than flawed writing.Does not need to be there. Lol what do you mean? She is Lelouch's focal point of thinking; how to rescue her that is! Your proposed line of thinking would in fact be the opposite of focusing on Nunnally. Self-blame is neither productive to a rescue mission nor is it about Nunnally. You sure implied he needs to! :) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: no we shouldn't know. I'd say the very situation of Nunnally's abduction by Mao more than shows he made a mistake and while Mao taunts him over it, both the audience and Lelouch should know he fucked up. Clearly the audience knows or we wouldn't be having this conversation. ;) TRC_Randy said: Look, here's why claiming Lelouch made a mistake is way more problematic than just admitting it's a plot hole: 1. It undermines his status as a super intelligent character. As someone who thinks a few steps ahead of an experienced commander in large scale military combats in a vehicle (the Knightmares) that he's never even been in, leaving one single simp alive is no less than a stupid and careless asf mistake. 2. It leaves specific loose ends that require assumptions (Occam's razor) which themselves are merely "possible explanations" that aren't proven in any shape or form as seen in my convo with Thor. 3. It requires such event to have a certain takeaway points like Lelouch becoming more aware/careful etc. Otherwise it only happens for the sake of it i.e. a complete waste of time. 4. It undermines Nunnally's character and 5. Lelouch's thought process as i've said before (fr all they had to do was a 3-second line of him saying "kusuo, shippaishita" or a 5-second clip of him flashing back on what he should've done, that's it). All sophistry and bullshit, my friend! 1.As Thor said, Lelouch is human, it is perfectly in the realm of possibility that he makes mistakes. Even top tacticians and strategists can be careless sometimes. Any reasonable audience member are able to tell he screwed up, the writers very clearly aren't trying to hide it if they wrote Mao's taunt in. 2.There are no loose ends. All your questions of it are based on your own internal requirements of how an anime should be, not how it actually is or what information is missing because information isn't missing or we wouldn't be debating here about a point that we are clearly both aware of. 3. The entire Mao arc is a foreshadowing for later events and the episode you are critiquing is the one that directly leads to a critical piece of character information about Suzaku. So no, there's no time wasted here. You're just missing the point of the information you consume as usual for some reason. 4. Nunnally's both blind and crippled. I'm really not sure what you expect her to do in a show about a guy running a terrorist organization and overthrowing an empire. She's already the center of Lelouch's thoughts literally from start to finish. 5.That is your own way of thinking, not Lelouch's. You are not Lelouch, now stop projecting yourself on him while being surprised he isn't you. Different people think differently. Its fine to say you can't relate to him, but trying to say another thought process is automatically bad writing as you have continuously done here showcases nothing but your own arrogance. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: nope. Claiming "he's INTJ" or whatever type of personality does nothing but bring EVEN MORE questions:Read Balsamina's posts again, I think she exactly detailed that bit using Lelouch's Myers Briggs typing, Where does the show say directly/indirectly that Lelouch is INTJ? Why does in ep 7 16:10 Lelouch acted contradictory to INTJ where instead of thinking about the student's council that he receives a call from why not just think "productive and goal-efficient" by immediately hanging up or leaving it be and stay focused on the battlefield that he's actually in? One, show-and-not-tell means showing a character's personality (for example, demonstrating their MBTI type or possible typings). Two, if that timestamp is what I think it is, it further proves you have a lot of trouble understanding things and see things in black and white, failing to comprehend nuance. You do realize, now you are trying to assert by implication that Lelouch is not an INTJ by claiming he does not follow an INTJ blueprint to the T, right? xD Yet, I would say many people would see the timestamp you quoted to be trivial as personality typing is typically treated as a guideline, not a law of the universe where there can't be a single deviation. But more than that, if that's the scene I think it is, it's where he's fighting Cornelia, isn't it? That shoukd be around episode 7. Anyway, if so, there's no real urgency in that particular battle. Lelouch is not a specialized pilot, he's just sitting around giving orders. In which case if there's no urgent developments on the battlefield, it's actually more efficient to answer the call and see what they need while the battle isn't moving. And if memory serves me correct, the callers hung up themselves in that scene. You're grasping at straws here! :) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: where does the show say "he's laser-focused and everything else be damned"?Not really. His objective was getting his future wife back. He's laser-focused on that. Everything else be damned. They show it throughout. He's both laser focused and capable of multitasking while maintaining focus through coordination. Really, what indeed were you even watching...? TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: bruh, exactly stupid asf mistake. Instead of just getting her back why not think further and put Mao to complete silence? Even the average Joe would be able to think of silencing witnesses so why not Zero?I doubt he thought about the cops obeying his orders to the "T" and literally shooting only non-vitals. His plan worked, he got waifu back and he had every reason to think all was well. Again you miss the point that as it was shown, Mao already appeared silenced by death. If not, there would be no one surprised by his return after that scene. I do mean both in the show and amongst the audience by that, to be clear. It just so happens that all the bullets never hit anywhere vital so his survival was not expected. Most average joes would assume getting shot at by multiple cops would lead to death by likelihood. Only a sadist or someone with a ton of hate or obsession would sit around there and scrutinize how dead a guy shot by multiple cops actually is and then spend time making sure of it, haha. Lelouch is not shown to be sadistic, nor hateful or obsessed with Mao. Besides, he likely had to leave the scene before his geass wore off on the actual cops. TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: it failed to. Sorry. Having Mao in the previous eps was fun but not this one.He's brought back to bring some tension and fun to the show That's your subjective opinion and in no way invalidates the enjoyment other viewers had, nor the writer's intentions. :) TRC_Randy said: LieLikeVortigern said: mere plot device then.as well as a fancy way to use his mind-reading abilities to show that Suzaku's a walking bag of PTSD from killing his own father. Suzaku himself would have potentially never spoke of it otherwise. Lelouch later makes use of the information politically. Nice semantics, but trying to imply this is bad doesn't make it so. Personally, I found it quite elaborate. |
LieLikeVortigernAug 11, 2023 5:57 PM
TRC_RandyAug 15, 2023 7:00 PM
TRC_RandyAug 15, 2023 7:38 PM
| My full conversation with Thor since it won't show up above EmperorThor said: TRC_Randy said: common sense, they will call ambulance in such situation.where in the show did it say the police took him? |
TRC_RandyAug 15, 2023 7:28 PM
| Because this series as a whole is garbage and a bootleg version of Legend of the Galactic Heroes |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
Foppop said: What is your motive for creating an account just to stalk mewhat the hell has happened here |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
TRC_Randy said: (Reformatting this for space) 1. Man i gotta say your latest reply is severly filled with attempts to vilify me. 2. Besides, how exactly did he know that i intentionally didn't read it? 3."Its not an attack on you as a person, its like saying 'so this is a waste of both of our time, huh?'." ---> bruh that IS personal attack. The moment he threw in "you" into it like claiming i have ill intentions that IS ad hominem. bruh ad hominems isn't all about calling names. 4.Oh, so when HE does it it's "HIS RIGHT" but when I do it it's "YOU'RE JUST BUTTHURT TO WIN". Wow hypocrisy at its finest. 5. no it's completely ILLOGICAL. Mao or Lelouch. I asked the latter they gave me the former. They DID NOT answer my question no matter how you look at it. 6. um dude, this goes to you guys as well. Invalid criticism. 7.I never implied my view on storytelling is universally correct. It's just a rule of thumb where a piece of fiction SHOULD properly establish their characters beforehand otherwise it would come off as an asspull. Sure, anyone can say "oh but this show does it differently" and i'm open to that (and I AM someone who watches ALL kinds of anime that does ALL KINDS of different things). 8.BRUH? That paragraph says NOTHING about "how i grade anime" and "how i think anime should be made" being different. All it says is he can resonate with trash anime or vice versa. Just a "like =/= good quality". That's all there is. So the point i made previously 9.You YOURSELF just proved my point. 10. BRUH. Those are TWO DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS. Don't mix them up. Again READ + one concerns about breaking his own rule + pointing out that anime MUST abide by certain rules/formats etc even according to himself. Meanwhile the other is about breaking the aforementioned rule of thumb. 11. Bruh this changes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. "Top tier" still WOULDN'T deduce from "exercise nut" LET ALONE beating an advanced gun system. 12. Oh yeah, another issue; a NON-ATHLETIC Lelouch saying "exercise nut" holds VERY LITTLE value let alone trying to justify all this. 13. this is pure degeneracy 14. so? How does that even prove anything? 15. where exactly does this happen? Where the hell's your ep number and time stamp? 16. "If I didn't you wouldn't reply to this! ;)"--> BRUH WHAT KIND OF STUPID ARSE LOGIC IS THAT? YOU REPLIED TO THAT COMMENT OF MINE SO THAT MEANS I WAS RIGHT THAT YOU DIDN'T PROVE JACK? 17. BRUH. Saying it should mean EXACTLY "show-don't-tell" means your quote of "exercise nut" is invalid now bcoz that's "SAY-DON'T-SHOW". 18.well people like me, OP and the rest alike DO NOT know and are doubting it (again, you saying this doesn't prove anything tbw). 19. then it's also perfectly in the realm of possibility 20. that he COULDN'T have made that mistake EVEN MORE SO as the miraculous Zero who thinks SEVERAL STEPS AHEAD of his opponents. Coming up with "kill him!" shoulda been a no brainer if not an OBVIOUS OPTION to him. So the conclusion stays; it is a stupid and careless asf mistake that DOES undermine his character's status. 21. and Lelouch is NOT an average joe which even THEY can come up with it. 22. BRUH they ARE loose ends. You DID NOT read my convo with Thor did you? and loose ends IS the texbook definition of missing information that I AM literally debating here with you lot. You destroyed your own argument again there. Look man, you lost here. Like, Thor's answers to my questions above are all assumptions that are "missing information" you WILL NOT FIND within the show. There's NO F***ING WAY you can argue back from that. 23. and THIS is EXACTLY why i told you to F***ING READ MY COMMENTS CAREFULLY otherwise it'd lead to bloody retarded straw mans like THIS!! + BRUH that's NOT the issue. Rescuing someone is a no-brainer. If you switch the kidnapped from Nunnally to someone else say another student, Lelouch would defo do the same which again, Nunnally is WAY MORE than just a "someone else" character so the show SHOULD HAVE shown some EXTRA elements of reflection/care/worry etc in Lelouch's INNER MONOLOGUES amid the event. Now, does the show do that? NO!! 24. BRUH that is Code Geass' OWN way of executing Lelouch's character not MY thinking. It's been doing that since the beginning and at this part it suddenly doesn't. Code Geass neglecting Code Geass' own method is Code Geass' problem. Not mine. Man, 3-5 seconds. That's all it needed to do yet failed to. 25. When Balsamina speaks it's a fact but when TRC_Randy speaks it's a misunderstanding. And finally, a straw man. No one said anything about following blueprints to the T. Besides, it was Balsamina who first brought up this whole INTJ itfp. Me giving that ep time stamp is just challenging his statement and you can't deny that it DOES contradict his. That's all. + urgency or not doesn't matter. Lelouch DOES act "unproductive and not goal-efficient" in that scene. That's the fact. 26. BRUH I ASKED "WHERE". Saying "throughout" DOES NOT point to "where". Timestamp mate, timestamp (2). 27. "your opinion invalid" (3). Well tbf this is where we cannot BUT agree to disagree since enjoyment is very subjective and is arguably inarguable. That said, if anyone is at fault here it's the writers considering they failed to satisfy all their audiences. 28. A "character" is supposed to be a "person" instead of a "device" in the story and this is a general rule that applies to every piece of fiction not just Code Geass. 29. Anyway, are you still up to the task? It's getting boring now. 5. Yes, they did answer your question. It never mattered who said the information in the show. Who says it is just your own internal requirement. Literally no one else in these chain of replies care; you just have special requirements that others don't. 6. Neither Thor nor Balsamina nor myself required Code Geass to be any way specifically. You are the only person insisting it to be. 7. Yes you did. In fact you did so through both implication throughout and by your statement just now. And whether or not storytelling techniques work can be conditionally interpretted. Those who paid attention and got the information they need seem fine with it, if this thread is anything to go by. 8. You are once again demonstrating you only read what you can use to strengthen your stance and ignore everything that contradicts your stance and boy do I enjoy seeing it. :) The process of scoring an anime is simply distinct from the process of creating one. Creation of an anime is a inalienable right of expression of the creators, irrelevant of how the show will then be perceived*. Code Geass is no exception. 9. You've made no coherent point other than that (1) you are a victim of sorts because people who disagree with you saw how tenacious and off-point your way of thinking about this topic is and that (2) Code Geass must follow your rules for storytelling and characterization for some reason. As such, I'm not quite sure what you think was proven unless you mean that there seems to be a consensus amongst others that you are hard of understanding. 10. No, no, you should read again because you were the one bringing up someone's anime rating checklist to talk about Suzaku's character presentation, trying to claim there is hypocrisy when there aren't any. I merely followed up on your words to the very end. :p 11. Its quite clear what those words in the show implies about Suzaku. If you've worked out in your life, you should know what being an exercise nut will do to your physical abilities! You become "top-tier". You know? The more you practice something, the better you get at it. It is looking like you're able to decide to perceive offense between the lines when none are intended towards you but when writers of a show try to imply information, it completely flies over your head. Fascinating. 12. Actually, other characters being impressed with Suzaku's physical abilities bring even more weight to his abilities in general. Why does Lelouch need to be athletic to comment? Trying to disqualify the credibility of narration from Lelouch when its convenient for you but requiring it and refusing to accept Mao saying it instead when it serves your ego to not be proven wrong... This only makes your whole stance's credibility look worse, I should point out. 13. I'm completely not seeing what is degenerate here. I must ask if you know what the word means. :) 14. Piloting a mecha is about agility and dexterity! SPEED, my fine lad! ;) And so is dodging bullets from a machine gun! SPEED Do you really have such a hard time putting 2 and 2 together!? So much so you've written probably 10 essay's worth of words with your confusion alone! :) 15. Probably episode 3-4. Likely in 4. Its roughly right before Orange got geassed in a grand spectacle. 16. Basic psychology my friend. I'm perfectly capable of reading your emotional state. As for why I reply, I simply enjoy doing so! :) No matter how far your understanding is of the topic we are discussing or how wrong you might be on the facts regarding this show, I don't mind. Heck, the fact that you don't agree delights me. I view this debate as a sport, you know. ;) 17. So they've both shown and told the same thing in separate scenes! It just means the audience has ample time and opportunity to absorb the point that Suzaku is physically overpowered. What's the problem? Did your initial point get disproven? :) 18. Literally, the fact that you are aware of it enough to bring it up as a point proves that you are aware of it. A sharp mind would require no further explanation! 19. Ah, so if both are possible, why is it a problem that the more humanizing possibility is what happened in the show? 20. No, your conclusion is still based on your own projections on a fictional character with whom your way of thinking differs too greatly from. 21. Lelouch is human still. His expectations and perceptions of immediate reality can be quite normal. He's not a clairvoyant no matter how smart he might be, you know. Expecting it from him is asking too much. :) 22. I read the entire exchange. Your continuing exchange with your unrequited love Balsamina as well! :) No, there weren't any lose ends. You just failed to connect the dots, so to speak. A failure to string together information to form the proper understanding that they both possess that lets them see no problems in the writing whereas you don't see the fluidity of the work because you aren't piecing information together. 23. I did. So you've finally tried to make your misunderstanding clearer. Now allow me to address it. As usual, you fail to demonstrate basic understanding of Lelouch: he's not a true hero of justice of the kind he spouts in his propaganda within the story to garner supporters. Other than Nunnally, or at best his friends at school to a lesser extent, he'd never bother caring to rescue them per se. He's the big picture kind of guy. You'd never be able to threaten him with anyone's life except for someone dear to him. So, the fact that he goes into desperation over Nunnally, so much so that he doesn't have time to blame himself actually proves that Nunnally is not being undermined at all in importance. 24. No, Lelouch's mind has been consistently portrayed. Your insistence on projecting your own way of thought and subsequent failure to align with the inevitable deviations do not constitute any writing mistake or fault or whatever you will be terming this for the preservation of your ego. 25. I doubt everything Balsamina says ever is fact but her posts in this thread are by far much more succinct and clear in meaning than anything you have demonstrated in your massive essays full of strawmans and misunderstandings by far! Try again and try better, I say! :) And no, there is no hypocrisy. Do you even understand what a Myers Briggs typing is? It has some consistency but not to the degree of physics or chemistry. Most people fit a type but might change from the type or deviate a bit from the mold from time to time. The original point made by Balsamina is simply to point to plausibility that Lelouch optimizes his thinking process, fully in line with how an INTJ's mind likes to work. My point is that Lelouch picking up the phone during downtime is actually efficient use of his personal time because his priorities are not only a coup d'etat but also his school life as a cover. See? Efficiency. But, even if I was wrong, because Myers Briggs allows for flexibity and minor deviations, there is in fact, no contradiction. 26. The proof is quite literally the entire show. Please watch it again. Or actually, perhaps it might even be, please watch it properly for the first time. :) 27. Haha! I'm happy to finally see a shred of humility in you, my fine friend! Agreeing to disagree can be crucial to understanding and tolerating other people, after all. However, I must point out its rather ego-centric to insist the writers must bear some kind of blame if you don't like a show they made; its almost like you see yourself as the center these poor writers must revolve around. Frankly, in no way are they required to cater to you specifically... 28. No, that's your own requirement! :) The best pieces of literature historically used their characters as walking personifications of ideas or ideals. Its a literary technique they might have taught you in school. A Tale of Two Cities for example did this plenty. Amongst other titles. Lelouch here embodies "the ends justify the means" while Suzaku embodies "ends gained through contemptible means don't mean anything"... or something to that effect. Then we have juxtaposition of these two's respective love interests, the "Princess" and the "Witch", highlighting the idealism and cynicism that guide each of their respective lovers. The fact that the motivations and desires of these personifications still manage to seem human actually marks the beauty of this show to me and apparently many others. 29. I told you, this whole debate is sport to me! ;) Its fun, thrilling, and entertaining! ...That said, if you're bored, you don't have to answer. I'm not forcing you. Ah, but you really ought to learn what villification, hypocrisy and strawmans are before throwing around words on things where they do not apply. Making your own definitions up will only heighten your misunderstandings when communicating with others. :) Lastly, I appreciate that you somewhat tried to comply with my request to stay ontopic, so I'll answer points 1-4 but please try to keep these off the conversation going forward: 1. You should learn what the word villify means before using it. Calling out your actions and lack of understanding is not the same as saying you are bad. Intelligent minds actually see the awareness of their own lack of understanding as a good thing, for example, you see. It allows them to improve themselves if they know their own shortcomings. It is only if you think your actions and lack of understanding is somehow bad that there is anything bad being thought about at all. In other words, you are villifying yourself with your own words once someone else calls out your stuff bluntly and without frills. 2. When you repeatedly do something, the intentions don't matter anymore. You demonstrate the same lack of understanding when conversing with me. 3. Do check what ad hominem is. Calling out your demonstrated actions or inabilities in a debate do not qualify. Nowhere did anyone say you are a bad person nor were you labeled with any insulting word. If you take everything that's not self-validation as insult, I recommend for your own good not to engage. :) 4. You are not doing the same thing as she is so your usage of the word hypocrisy is quite wrong here. You are going around trying to discredit people's arguments with stuff such as their account age or accusing people of being alts for having an opposing stance as you. Neither user sharing my stance in this debate did that. Please learn to properly model concepts in your mind before slapping mere buzzwords to everything that unintentionally upsets you. Lol. |
LieLikeVortigernAug 16, 2023 3:11 PM
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