| Why has no one ever made a dub of this show? Would LOVE to watch it with my daughter but she doesn't do subs... It's a real shame. |
| Away from the things of man, my love, away from the things of man. |
reeeyo said: have no clue why they didnt do dubs on this series, did your daughter and you get to watch it with subs though? Unfortunately not... Like I said she just can't read fast enough to keep up with the subs—especially for a rapid-fire dialogue show like this one. It's annoying b/c it's such a great anime. |
| Away from the things of man, my love, away from the things of man. |
| I did not see this coming. Does anyone know if the dub will be streamed on Crunchy? So far they only have it subbed. I'm willing to buy the bluray, but I'd like to watch a bit before I bite. |
| Whoa! Thanks for the heads up. Gonna rewatch now... |
| Away from the things of man, my love, away from the things of man. |
| The dub is so bad the publisher apologized on Twitter https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554 |
belial said: The dub is so bad the publisher apologized on Twitter https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554 Whoa! That's kind of disappointing. I'm OK with taking some creative license, but this sounds like it went farther than that. I liked the first ep. I watched with the dub. Are there specific examples of where the dub went too far? |
| Away from the things of man, my love, away from the things of man. |
Reply to boldulysses
belial said:
The dub is so bad the publisher apologized on Twitter
https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554
The dub is so bad the publisher apologized on Twitter
https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554
Whoa! That's kind of disappointing. I'm OK with taking some creative license, but this sounds like it went farther than that. I liked the first ep. I watched with the dub.
Are there specific examples of where the dub went too far?
| @boldulysses https://twitter.com/Scratch_Point_Z/status/1757046901084729455 Enjoy reading Basically the people that worked on it hated the source material and were caught talking about how much they hated it and how they changed it Personally I don't touch dubs. Even the dubs people usually consider "good" I consider unwatchable Anyway, you now know what you are in for |
Reply to belial
The dub is so bad the publisher apologized on Twitter
https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554
https://twitter.com/discotekmedia/status/1757133699899105554
| @belial Oh man, what a disaster. So both of the localizers of this release hate the main characters & did everything they could to "fix" them in the dub & subs. Thank goodness I didn't order this. I owe you one for letting us all know. |
belial said: Enjoy reading Wow. That's nuts. I guess I won't be finishing the dub then (and I do enjoy a good dub). Why couldn't they have just dubbed it as it was written? It's a show of its period and the dialogue and characterizations reflect that. Let people make their own judgments, good or bad. Editorializing in the dub, for whatever reason, crosses so many lines. |
| Away from the things of man, my love, away from the things of man. |
CorallineAlgae said: Where are you getting any notion of them changing/fixing the subs? According to the article:So both of the localizers of this release hate the main characters & did everything they could to "fix" them in the dub & subs. The amount of rough edges we shaved off of this are entirely invisible. Unless you buy the blu-ray and turn on the dub while also keeping the Japanese subtitles on, which allows you to listen to our edits in real time. At least to me, this suggests that the subtitles are not going to line up with the dub changes. Which makes sense -- Discotek first released the series with JP-audio-only back in 2013, so the subtitles would've been done long ago. |
Reply to Zalis
CorallineAlgae said:
So both of the localizers of this release hate the main characters & did everything they could to "fix" them in the dub & subs.
Where are you getting any notion of them changing/fixing the subs? According to the article:So both of the localizers of this release hate the main characters & did everything they could to "fix" them in the dub & subs.
The amount of rough edges we shaved off of this are entirely invisible. Unless you buy the blu-ray and turn on the dub while also keeping the Japanese subtitles on, which allows you to listen to our edits in real time.
At least to me, this suggests that the subtitles are not going to line up with the dub changes. Which makes sense -- Discotek first released the series with JP-audio-only back in 2013, so the subtitles would've been done long ago.
| @Zalis I got it from this section.  |
CorallineAlgae said: I got it from this section. I took that to mean "we changed those lines in the dub script that we were writing." And at least according to this, a lot of the stuff described by JelloApocalypse isn't actually in the final dub product: lossthief said: To clear up a couple things that have gotten lost in Fandom Telephone: Brendan Blaber, the guy who wrote that post, isn't a translator and did not do the translation for Lovely Complex. He's primarily a voice actor and youtuber who's worked in mostly minor roles in other TV anime. As far as I can find, he's never been credited with anything beyond voice work on an anime before now, where he's credited for ADR script co-director, assistant script writer, and Lyric adaptation for Lovely Complex. More concretely, while his (now deleted) post is absolutely insulting in a number of ways, it doesn't seem that what he said in it is accurate to the actual dub. Changes he says he was responsible for making (to, in his telling, make the show better) are either not present in the final product, or are largely identical to the original subtitle script as to barely be noticeable. He also seems to have exaggerated or straight up lied about other edits. There's also some strange bits where he claims they changed a character's reasons for disliking another, but that dynamic was already present in the original Japanese. So this really isn't a Ghost Stories situation, because the actual dub seems pretty accurate and faithful to the original. Problem is, it's hard for any given person to know that when the dub isn't streaming anywhere and only available on the recent blu-ray release. So a lot of folks are taking Blaber's post at face value and believing he totally trashed the final product, when that doesn't seem to be the case. To be clear, I'm not defending the kinds of wholesale changes JA allegedly made. Just that we should judge the dub based on what actually exists, rather than going off rumors and sensationalism. EDIT: Although there is some conflicting information out there, it does appear that some significant changes were made, such as softening transphobic elements in episode 04. |
ZalisFeb 14, 2024 5:34 PM
Reply to Zalis
CorallineAlgae said:
I got it from this section.
I got it from this section.
I took that to mean "we changed those lines in the dub script that we were writing." And at least according to this, a lot of the stuff described by JelloApocalypse isn't actually in the final dub product:
lossthief said:
To clear up a couple things that have gotten lost in Fandom Telephone:
Brendan Blaber, the guy who wrote that post, isn't a translator and did not do the translation for Lovely Complex. He's primarily a voice actor and youtuber who's worked in mostly minor roles in other TV anime. As far as I can find, he's never been credited with anything beyond voice work on an anime before now, where he's credited for ADR script co-director, assistant script writer, and Lyric adaptation for Lovely Complex.
More concretely, while his (now deleted) post is absolutely insulting in a number of ways, it doesn't seem that what he said in it is accurate to the actual dub. Changes he says he was responsible for making (to, in his telling, make the show better) are either not present in the final product, or are largely identical to the original subtitle script as to barely be noticeable. He also seems to have exaggerated or straight up lied about other edits. There's also some strange bits where he claims they changed a character's reasons for disliking another, but that dynamic was already present in the original Japanese.
So this really isn't a Ghost Stories situation, because the actual dub seems pretty accurate and faithful to the original. Problem is, it's hard for any given person to know that when the dub isn't streaming anywhere and only available on the recent blu-ray release. So a lot of folks are taking Blaber's post at face value and believing he totally trashed the final product, when that doesn't seem to be the case.
To clear up a couple things that have gotten lost in Fandom Telephone:
Brendan Blaber, the guy who wrote that post, isn't a translator and did not do the translation for Lovely Complex. He's primarily a voice actor and youtuber who's worked in mostly minor roles in other TV anime. As far as I can find, he's never been credited with anything beyond voice work on an anime before now, where he's credited for ADR script co-director, assistant script writer, and Lyric adaptation for Lovely Complex.
More concretely, while his (now deleted) post is absolutely insulting in a number of ways, it doesn't seem that what he said in it is accurate to the actual dub. Changes he says he was responsible for making (to, in his telling, make the show better) are either not present in the final product, or are largely identical to the original subtitle script as to barely be noticeable. He also seems to have exaggerated or straight up lied about other edits. There's also some strange bits where he claims they changed a character's reasons for disliking another, but that dynamic was already present in the original Japanese.
So this really isn't a Ghost Stories situation, because the actual dub seems pretty accurate and faithful to the original. Problem is, it's hard for any given person to know that when the dub isn't streaming anywhere and only available on the recent blu-ray release. So a lot of folks are taking Blaber's post at face value and believing he totally trashed the final product, when that doesn't seem to be the case.
To be clear, I'm not defending the kinds of wholesale changes JA allegedly made. Just that we should judge the dub based on what actually exists, rather than going off rumors and sensationalism.
EDIT: Although there is some conflicting information out there, it does appear that some significant changes were made, such as softening transphobic elements in episode 04.
| @Zalis Do you really doesn't care that the person responsible for dub, literally insulted the show and even confidently stated that the show "sucks" and doesn't feel like shit now precisely because of his changes? If I were interested in this show in 2024, I would be terribly uncomfortable listening to dub knowing the situation behind it. @boldulysses Not everyone is as wise as Spielberg, who last year apologized for remastering his projects and argued that trying to retroactively "fix" films actually distorts what made them so popular in their time. |
RobertBobertFeb 13, 2024 9:55 PM
 |
RobertBobert said: Do you really doesn't care that the person responsible for dub, literally insulted the show and even confidently stated that the show "sucks" and doesn't feel like shit now precisely because of his changes? Like I said before, I'm not defending these changes; I just think criticism should be based on evidence and observable reality, rather than the cherrypicking/exaggeration/fabrication that the purist/anti-industry crowd usually chooses to engage in. While there were initially conflicting reports, it does appear that at least some of the alterations that JelloApocalypse made are present in the final product. That said, I don't expect every dub script writer or associated employee to love every show they work on. That's part of the job -- you're going to get titles you don't necessarily like or agree with. I also don't insist that dubs remain perfectly 100% faithful to the Japanese script, and am fine with dub scripts that "punch up" or "enhance" lines that're throwaway or irrelevant to the overall work. Even the infamous "patriarchal society" Dragon Maid line had approximately 0% effect on the show as a whole. That said, I don't agree with trying to covertly remold or remake an entire show by changing character reactions, how characters perceive other characters, or the general mood of arcs or scenes. (Though some dubs that did this, like Ghost Stories, were more obvious parody/gag projects, which is not the case for the Lovely Complex dub.) While I can understand the desire to tone down problematic aspects like transphobia, the individuals involved should not have expected an ultra-inclusive/trans-friendly work when looking at an adaptation of a shoujo manga from the early 2000s. Additionally, I do think it's unfortunate that these dub script writers (who evidently come from the Extremely Online / Pronoun Police / "Rainbow/Alphabet" cadre, and whose overall political philosophy I'm generally aligned with) have apparently provided perfect ammunition for the reactionary anti-industry contingent of the anime viewerbase. Especially when the publisher involved is Discotek, who have a consistent history of relative fidelity to the original material, and in fact rarely ever produce dubs at all -- they will re-release dubs made by other companies, but almost never create dubs otherwise. |
Zalis said: I also don't insist that dubs remain perfectly 100% faithful to the Japanese script, and am fine with dub scripts that "punch up" or "enhance" lines that're throwaway or irrelevant to the overall work. Even the infamous "patriarchal society" Dragon Maid line had approximately 0% effect on the show as a whole. That's a false argument. Most people aren't asking that "dubs remain perfectly 100% faithful to the Japanese script". Most people simply want them to remain as faithful to the spirit of the original work as possible, without being updated for a modern audience. Changing perceived problematic lines & characters may be fine for the portion of the customer base that agrees with the localizer's political or social agenda, but there are a lot of paying customers who will not buy a show that has activist messages injected into scenes. It does not matter if the Dragon Maid line had zero effect on the show. That wasn't the point of changing the line. The point was to inject a message, and it did have an effect. That's why it is pointed out so often. I would have bought Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid if it didn't have the activist insert. That's a sale for two seasons of the show lost. Plenty of other physical media fans did the same. Many people simply do not want to support localizers or companies that do these things. I went from buying around one to two BR/DVD shows from the Funi store a month to about one or two a year (often used copies from eBay to avoid contributing to new sales). Again, these changes have an affect. Zalis said: While I can understand the desire to tone down problematic aspects like transphobia... I disagree again. I do not see any value in toning down a perceived transphobic character at all. The reverse is also true. I don't see any value in making an original pro-trans character into an anti-trans character. Both types of characters can be faithfully adapted without alteration from localizers. Many fans simply don't like localizers changing original content to meet western sensitivity standards, so they don't buy it. Simple as that. Same goes for game remakes. That said, anime studios almost always make changes to original stories. These works are adaptations after all. It's up to paying customers to let them know what sorts of changes they are willing to accept. Most customers just want anime to be as faithfully adapted from the light novels or manga as possible. There's a reason FMA is ranked #465 & FMA:B is #2. Localizers earn their bad reputations. Just like some anime studios earn a bad or spotty reputation for making bad anime adaptations. |
| i'm glad i watched this show with italian dub, i have the biggest respect for voice actors from this country since i was a kid, and even if adaptation / censorship problems have existed from the 80's to the mid/late 2000's mostly out of pressure from concerned "watchdog parents associations" against the airing networks, to date i never discovered questionable episodes about the VA industry members changing the script themselves in order to force one-sided political propaganda, regardless whose side it comes from, and wish those will never happen. i'm glad that terrible people like j.a. (wasn't even aware of who he was before this controversy, and what a awful name by the way) and jamie marchi don't exist in italian dub movement. |
 |
| Are the subs present on streaming websites safe of the rewriting bullshit? I'd like to watch this show but i'd hate to watch some rewritten (with an agenda) subs. |
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